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Inspired by "Why Men Love Bitches", youngandthrifty writes about whether men find financially independent women a turn off or a turn on? When it comes to money and relationships, anything goes.

I recently read “Why Men Love Bitches” by Sherry Argov (yeah, that’s right, I’ve been reading more books in the past few weeks than I have in the past few years!) and in this book she has “100 Attraction Principles” whereby if a girl withholds these principles, the guy of your interest would become and hopefully stay attracted to you.  On a side note, I just wanted to clarify that if you haven’t read the book, the author isn’t saying that girls need to be a b*tch, she’s just saying that girls should “hold their own” and not be emotionally needy for the guy.  In this book she argues that emotional neediness is NOT a turn on and basically is a one-way ticket for the guy to hightail it out of the relationship.

One of her principles, Attraction Principle #82 says:

Financial neediness is no different than emotional neediness; in both instances, he can still get the feeling that he has 100 percent hold on you

What Sherry Argov means by 100 percent hold is the feeling is disrespect towards the female who is financially needy, and not “holding her own”.  There are many stories of women who were absolutely devastated after a divorce, not only emotionally but financially.  Because their husbands managed the  money in the household, the newly divorced women did not know anything about saving or investing.  They did not know the financial assets and investments their husband had because their husbands handled the finances.  This is an unfortunate but often common occurrence for divorcees.

Some men really don’t like the fact that their wives make more than they do.  At the same time, some men really relish the fact that their wives make more than they do.  I guess each guy is different.  I am curious what men out there prefer- do you prefer to be the breadwinner and pay for everything (including her trips, her designer bags, her dinners etc.) or do you prefer to have a girl who can hold her own?


With so many dual income couples and families being a necessity instead of a choice these days, our roles have changed.  We were mostly raised by mothers who stayed at home and took care of us, however, this scenario seems less common now (at least where I live it seems this way).  Often both parents need to work now to support the high cost of living in this day and age.  I think that having dual income earners inevitably changes our roles on the domestic front. With many women focusing on their career, many don’t have time for dating. This makes services like Badoo or other dating sites popular for men and women to find their better halves.

When I wrote about separate or joint finances, I was quite surprised by the amount of comments advocating for joint finances (like 100% joint finances) in order to show that the couple is working “as a team” and not working separately.  I can see the importance of having joint finances, for example, if someone in the relationship had to stay home and raise the children.  However, if I were to have kids, I know I would want to keep working, even if it was part-time.  It would be nice to have my own money and not rely on hubby’s approval for extraneous purchases that he might not necessarily agree on (e.g. my $150 worth in wine last weekend).

Balance is Key

Personally, like all things in life, I think that having balance is key.  I know many guy friends who don’t admit it, but are scared of women who are powerful in the boardroom.  They equate power in the boardroom as power in the bedroom.  Many guys want girls who are feminine and who won’t boss or nag them around.  With more and more elite professions these days that were once predominantly “boys clubs” and are now dominated by females (e.g. medicine and law), I wonder how powerful, financially independent women balance it out at home?  Do they tune down the dominance when they get home and become meek pussy cats in order to please their man and not scare him off?  Do they call all the shots and get taken advantage of like I did back in the day?

Perhaps this post will become more controversial than the post on me buying real estate!

Readers, what do you think?  Do you think financially independent women are sexy? Or does the “girl power” motto scare you off? Be honest! 😉

Article comments

Paul says:

Well this is a very excellent reason why many of us good men are still Single today.

I don’t care whether it’s sexy or not, but that’s how it’s going to be for me. Even if I got married, I’d still have my own account (but would be OK with one joint acct. for household stuff).

Young says:

@B&B- That’s what I do too 😉 Joint account for household stuff.

I think they can be super duper sexy, as long as they know to be feminine around men. Many independent ladies have to be tough and man-like at work and forget that we have to turn that off with men. When we behave like men in our personal lives we don’t get to be with strong manly man…instead we attract weak submissive men. So…are independent women sexy? It all depends on the woman!

young says:

@Agatha- Couldn’t agree any more. It’s the polarity aspect of it + attracts – and not + attracting +.

R2D2 says:

Agree. Financially independent women sometimes tend to be man-like and not sexy at all.
“It all depends on the woman!”

Young says:

@R2D2- LOL uh oh cat came out of the bag! There will be many women knocking down your blog-door peeved 😉

Jessie says:

They are sexy! My honey would agree too 🙂

young says:

@Jessie- You and Jordan are too cute! 🙂

lee says:

i think you’re assuming that all successful women are power wielding dominatrixes. i am the breadwinner in my relationship and my boyfriend has no problem with it. i LOVE my job and i’ve been fortunate enough to figure out how to get paid to do what i love to do, and i get paid well. he loves his job just as much, but it doesn’t pay well. i am, admittedly, by nature a bit of a dominating personality (i like efficiency, i like to get things done) but i do not like to tell people what to do, especially not my boyfriend when i’m at home. that said, i don’t turn in to a meek pussycat either! i think it has to do with me being a confident person who is comfortable with who i am. i can turn on my “power” side when i need to, but i don’t wield it all the time to show everyone, including my man, who’s in charge. i’m not that insecure any more. just my two cents.

young says:

@lee- Great perspective lee! I think that is the key, that no one likes to have someone else show off their powerful ways in their faces. I think that shows respect too and consideration for your partner.

My husband loves that I can handle the finances because he realizes that isn’t in his skill set (he has a hard time with details).

We also decided before we got married that we’d have 100% joint finances… and it works great for us. We also decided that we each get the same amount of cash each month for our individual fun money that we can spend on whatever and not tell one another.

young says:

@South Country Girl- That sounds like a good idea. I may really look into that (providing BF agrees) because its a sense of “our” and not “mine” and “yours”.

Loved reading all the comments from all the fabulous ladies and gentlemen out there. Great post, Y&T!

I think that financial independence (and independence, in general), is like any other trait of someone. It makes up a part of them, and how important that part is, depends on the person and relationship.

I think that it’s be more important in this day and age for women and men to be independent, but especially women. Things like higher divorce rates, death of a spouse, lack of pension or someone to take care of them, can be devastating even without the financial impact.

In my relationship, BF respects the fact that I am financially independent and I take pride in my career. But, I also know that things can get sticky when I take things too far (i.e., when I complain too much on spending money), because he may not want to think about it all the time. Understandable, that’s why I have a blog and write to the wonderful people of the PF community 🙂

I think the most important thing in the relationship is mutual respect for both parties, no matter what the salary levels or who is the breadwinner, male or female. Just because one party is a manager or a high level executive at work, doesn’t mean they get to treat their partner the same way they treat their staff (i.e., be-belittling or treating their partner with disrespect).

Maybe at the beginning of the relationship, both parties are more equal (financially speaking), and once they get married and have kids, one partner decides to stay at home or work less, or take a less stressful job. Everyone contributes to the relationship in different ways, and it’s important there is mutual respect and equal power in the relationship. I would never want to have to ask my husband for “permission” to buy something, whether I was working or not. That is unacceptable to me. At the same time, I also need to respectful in my decision of what to buy, and how it affects my partner and family.

My mother stayed at home to care for my sisters and I, but my father and mother always made decisions as a team. I never witnessed my mother asking my father for money for a purchase, decisions were always made as a team. Even if it was a certain limit for their own “spending money.”

Not sure if I answered your question at all. I think mutual respect is sexy 😉

Yes, my wife does work as well. We base the who does what not by “traditional” gender roles, but by who’s “most available.” If laundry has to be done, and I’m going to stay up later at night, I’ll start throwing in loads. If I have to work late, she’ll rev up the lawn mower.

I maintain almost exclusive rights to cooking, though. I enjoy it….she on the other hand, not so much.

YuppieGirl says:

@Andrea @SoOverDebt: The story of your dating experience so sobering and depressing. Reality is, as comments above have directly or indirectly pointed out, that men still cradle their egos. Even Miss Young&Thrifty here is saying wouldn’t it wonderful if men really could be the breadwinner so there’s no bruised ego involved. That’s not what I would meekly accept. As a young professional woman, I would have to feel true partnership and respect from my boyfriend/husband. No more tiptoeing around this issue at home, ladies!

young says:

@YuppieGirl- I think you misunderstand me 🙂 I’m not saying that men should be the main breadwinner. Even if I had 4 children to take care of, I would do my best to continue to work part-time. I am personally very driven, and am working on my masters degree in the fall. However, I realize the attitude of me, me, me doesn’t coincide well with men I’m interested in having a relationship with. Unfortunately, there are still many men out there who wouldn’t want to be nagged or bitched at all the time by their female counterpart.

Andrea @SoOverDebt says:

I read “Why Men Love Bitches” last year and loved it!

Before I gave up on dating, I found that men in general were very intimidated by the fact that I have a professional career. They were more intimidated when they heard my plan (just a plan at the time) to get my finances straightened out. I got so tired of it that I started putting my profession as “cashier” on the online dating sites. And the interest increased exponentially.

That’s when I decided I’d rather die alone than with someone who wants me to be this meek little girl behind a cash register instead of the person I am. No more dating for me!

young says:

@Andrea- That is disgusting that you got more responses by putting your job description as cashier on the online dating sites. You won’t be dying alone, you have your son 🙂 Besides, many women outlive their men anyways and end up dying alone anyways.

The Wealthy Canadian says:

Thanks! 🙂

The Wealthy Canadian says:

Damn straight I do!

My wife has always been responsible with money and knowing that she was able to earn her degree and become a professional in the field of her choice has been great to see and be a part of over the past several years.

By being involved in the workforce to the extent that she has been also allows us to park more of our hard-earned dollars into investments.

She trusts me to make the bulk of our investment decisions (although she is involved to a degree), which I really enjoy doing, while I tend to put 100% of my confidence in her when she has ideas about additions/renovations to our principal residence & vacationing.

I have a friend that works his a$$ off and yet his spouse is home watching Jerry Springer all day. When I go to visit their home, the place is as if hurricane Katrina hit it and he always has to come home and cook supper despite the fact that his spouse isn’t even working (and no they have no kids). I’ve seen this as well with lazy men who contribute virtually zilch to the efforts of a fruitful relationship, while the other half in the relationship is pulling all kinds of hours at work.

I’m not trying to suggest that I think both people in a relationship have to work; I’m just saying that a lifetime together is a team effort and each has to do their part.

Nice post!

young says:

@TWC- What a beautiful comment, TWC! Your wife sounds very lucky to have you! 🙂 It definitely is about balance and respecting your partner’s area of expertise to shine.

Definitely one of the “secrets” for men to understand and be with women is to read what women read to understand and be with men.

It’s one of the most logical no brainer solutions!

young says:

@Financial Samurai- Hmm I think if all guys did that, then the world would be a bazillion times better!! 🙂

Little House says:

As a woman, I’ve always been independent. I couldn’t ever see myself as being completely dependent on any one person. That being said, however, my husband have a 51/49 thing going on: 51% of the time I’m in charge and he takes the 49% ratio, then it flip-flops to 51% of the time he’s in charge. It really depends on what the task is; I handle the finances, but he has a say in them. He cooks and I’m not allowed in the kitchen but I have a say in what he’s cooking. Maybe I’m not explaining this correctly, but the bottom line is we work together.

young says:

@Little House- I like the 51/49 ratio! I like the balance and the compromise. I love all your comments, I’m learning so much about relationships.

There are 2 pieces to this issue:

1) Being responsible with your money and your life choices no matter how much money you make. This is called being an adult and, I would hope, each of us would want to be and be with someone like this.

2) Being financially successful and independent. As 101 Centavos said above, the traits women have to cultivate for business success aren’t usually a turn-on to men. Plus, success takes energy (mental and physical) and a lot of time. This is time and energy that’s taken away from the relationship. Wives of highly paid men are socially conditioned (and highly compensated) to sacrifice relationship time for her husband’s work. Husbands..not so much.

young says:

@Betty Kincaid- both very good points! It’s so difficult to find balance for everything. For example, I’m happy with my blog, but it takes away so much time from my relationships and personal life. I am wondering if that is the reason there are less women bloggers than male bloggers?

Kerri says:

I think it has more to do with how much confidence women exhibit overall, not just financially but emotionally.

However, there is another side to this. There are times when a woman does want to be treated like a woman, but it’s harder for a man to recognise these moments.

young says:

@Kerri- Yup. And that’s perhaps why men are confused nowadays because we make them confused! We want them to open the door for us, treat us to dinner, buy us flowers, but yet we want to remain fiercely independent.

Nice post!!!

I may just take this in another direction but Financially Independent to me doesn’t mean much if it’s all spent … It doesn’t mean financially responsible. I would require a step further where it needs to be financially savvy (as opposed to someone who can have a high lifestyle). Many women nowadays have good jobs and can handle their finance but that doesn’t mean they have their finances in order. Men don’t even have it in general anyways. I just have to look around the office …

I have never been one to put financial expectation in my spouse as I can handle it on my own. It was never a requirement before or after we got married.

I have to say that she would be lost in my investments. She already brought it up once asking what she would do …

On a side note, it took a good amount of time for my wife to get accustomed to spending money she did not earn. The credit card is not an ever flowing cash machine 🙂 I went through a good number of adjustment on how I gave her money for grocery and such. I don’t think that’s any different with couples with 2 salaries. It may be worse as both may feel entitled to spend (LuLulemon here, Coach there, …). Again, ‘Financially Independent’ doesn’t mean financially responsible.

– If my wife made my salary, I’d stay home and look after the kids and find ways to make more money. Kraft dinner here and there 🙂 Ok, I’d pick up some cooking classes.
– If my wife had a good job, I’d plan on investing it and grow the nest egg. It’s extra revenue in the “family corporation”. She may be the CEO but I am the CFO 🙂

Enough of me, just throwing my 2 cents out there.

young says:

@The Passive Income Earner- Thanks for your perspective, I’m loving the comments on this post so much. I really like the way you put it, that if she were to be the breadwinner, she may be the CEO but you will be the CFO. It’s good to know there are so many good men out there, who understand what true partnership is!

Bryan says:

I see one situation that would still be sticky for most (but not all) guys: if the girl makes so much more than the guy that it makes his financial contribution insignificant….. the guy would probably feel unproductive and not very “guy-ish” at all…..

Whereas if a guy made big bucks, and his wife didn’t have to work at all, that probably wouldn’t bother anyone much.

young says:

@Bryan- Good point, Bryan. And here is where the gender roles come into play!

Nah, my boss still can’t do much for himself. But from what I hear, that’s the way a lot of the Older Jewish men are. The wife is even more religious than he is so I don’t see that dynamic ever changing. In fact, at his son’s wedding, it felt more like a contract signing: the groom was asked if he will provide, and the bride was asked if she will bare his children and some other crap that sounded like it was written in the early 1900’s. (Just a disclaimer, I’m Jewish so I this isn’t some kind of antisemetic rant!)

I also agree with Erica. I seek out women who place an emphasis on their own career, and who have their own ideas and opinions who can challenge me to think. I don’t want a Barbie doll to pose and place in the positions that I want, nor someone to walk behind me or to parade around. Equality, someone to be beside me yet strong enough to stand alone and hold her own is more attractive to me.

young says:

@Eric J. Nisall- LOL I like your disclaimer.. I was wondering from your last comment and to be honest, felt a bit uncomfortable, until you explained you were Jewish yourself 😉 Great perspective and analogy re: Barbie doll.

Great comment, Squirrelers – stereotyped gender roles don’t have to be followed today (as much as my mother would say otherwise). In fact, in my home I do more than my fair share of laundry duty (I know all about the delicate cycle), and I am also the grocery shopper and chef of the family.

So, maybe we need a followup article…do women find men who fold laundry, cook, and vacuum sexy?

young says:

@Travis- Yes! Very sexy! What does your wife do to contribute around the home? Do you both work full time?

Squirrelers says:

Young, I agree with the comment you made to Financial Uproar, above.

You said “…men are turned off by women who act like men towards them”

Agreed. Women can earn income too, and men can share the housework too. Old sterotyped gender roles don’t have to be followed today. That being said, we can share work while still maintaing our gender roles.

young says:

@Squirrelers- Hurrah!

Helly says:

Re: my friend. I haven’t said anything, though I would love to. They’ve only been together a couple of years, and right now I feel like it’s none of my business. It’s not like she’s being harmed in any way– it is, after all, her choice to be with him. And she does have a naturally submissive personality, so it’s not like there’s discord in the household because 2 dominant personalities clash. I guess it just makes me more sad than anything, because 1) I don’t really like the guy to begin with, and 2) I can’t personally imagine being in that sort of relationship. But… to each their own? At least for now. We’ll see how the picture changes when it comes to really important life decisions later on.

You make a good point about women doing the same thing to men– I’ve witnessed those kinds of relationships as well. Whether or not it’s a form of manipulation depends on each relationship. I think in most cases, yes, it is– the wife that I’ve witnessed doing this clearly doesn’t respect her husband enough to talk important issues through. On the other hand, I can see how some men can be too hardheaded and “masculine” to want to discuss or compromise on decisions. And while I think that kind of attitude is pretty oafish, a woman who can get around that, maintain her husband’s sense of masculinity while at the same seeing to it that wise decisions are made… is pretty wiley, in my book 😉

It sort of ties in with Financial Uproar’s comment. In a way, I can understand wishing to be the breadwinner of the family, and, having had (and ended!) relationships with men who were nothing but “fortune hunters”, I can certainly respect his point of view on that. But to completely discount women in “prestige jobs” strikes me as premature. You may find yourself completely compatible with that corporate attorney, and if you have the same values regarding work/family balance (for instance), then her job is just a secondary aspect of her, because you guys will find ways to adjust and accommodate that balance you both strive for.

p.s. for a controversial topic: how about pre-nuptial agreements? I bet you’d get all sorts of interesting comments on that one 😉

young says:

@Helly- Being wiley sounds like something I am going to strive to be LOL. I think my BF is pretty masculine, and I am pretty feminine on the most part, but do have a tendency to “act like a man” when I need to get things done, like pay the mortgage, stuff with personal finance etc. I wonder if you reading the blog: http://www.thefemininewoman.com will make you upset? I think that a woman can be quite powerful being feminine, though we were all brought up to think otherwise.

Hmm pre-nup agreements, sounds like a good post idea! I’m loving the comments on this post so far 🙂

JT says:

Money is a by-product of the personality traits that are sexy–confidence, reliability, and, in some ways, the ability to have a great time doing what you love.

young says:

@JT- Well said, JT! As much as we don’t want to acknowledge it, money often buys us what we value.

Great post!

I pride myself on my financial independence. I have no intentions of sharing a joint account with my boyfriend or a future partner.

My boyfriend’s parents definitely did not have an equal relationship, with the father making every decision. This contrasts enormously with my own background. My mother is a veritable matriarch- a successful doctor and all round powerhouse who has raised three strong-minded, careerist daughters who value their independence. Sometimes it’s tricky with my boyfriend- I worry that he’s after someone who is needier and more ditsy, which just isn’t my style. Most of the time I think he values my intelligence and independence.

young says:

@Harri- Thanks for sharing your background, harri! How each of us is raised determines to a great extend how we plan to live our lives, though I think with us being more aware of this, it can be easier to break these patterns. Great to hear that your mother was a powerful matriarch, she sounds like a great role model you had growing up.

Heck ya – a woman who has her financial act together is very sexy.

It’s all part of the independence and confidence package that is attractive. Being confident isn’t about being a bitch or being a nag, it’s about knowing who you are and where you want to be going. It’s about truth, realism and transparency.

When it comes to financial matters, confidence is essential for success. To quote a bit of the band Cake – I want a woman with a short skirt, long jacket and big purse of financial sense 😉

young says:

@My Own Advisor- Love the way you put it. I don’t think Cake’s lyrics included the “big purse of financial sense’ but I could be wrong 😉 Truth, realism, and transparency are so difficult to display at times, especially when we don’t want our hearts to be open and vulnerable 🙂 but it is so true that these qualities help keep a relationship strong.

101 Centavos says:

Nice post, Y&T. In reading through the comments, let’s not equate financial independence with power in the boardroom. Male or female, strong personalities in positions of managerial power are prone to assholish tendencies. Truer than not at large public companies, where political skills are a definite get-ahead asset. And don’t we just love politicians?

young says:

@101 Centavos- LOL assholish tendencies. I like that term!

Daisy says:

Ohhh interesting post!!

When I was a kid, my mom worked full time as well as my dad. But my mom was less educated, and so when they divorced, she lost everything, and couldn’t claw her way back up. She didn’t have the earning power that my dad had, and so financial stability and independence has always been important to me.

I think regardless of whether you are male or female, it is super important to be able to support yourself, and your children if you have any. Even if you have a partner who you plan to be with forever, you never know what might happen.

I think it’s a beautiful thing to want to be a mother, but I’m always scared for those women who ONLY want to be a mother and don’t try to find their own niche or independence financially. It’s great if your husband can take care of you now but what if he can’t always? What if he develops a disability like so many people out there? Even if you don’t get divorced, building skills to make an income after 15 years of being unemployed and raising children is nearly impossible.

I’m sad for humanity that some men hate it when their wives/girlfriends make more than they do. It shouldn’t matter who makes more 🙂 As long as the other person doesn’t rub it in their face, and each person is contributing, who cares!

I think that regardless of whether or not men like it when women bring home the bacon, it’s important that us women can make it on our own as well 🙂

My two cent.. now I’ll end my novel 🙂

young says:

@Daisy-Thanks! I really enjoyed writing about it and thinking about it. I’m glad to see some girls come out and comment! 🙂 Thanks for sharing your two cents. I appreciate your perspective- I agree… I don’t think it should matter who makes the money, as long as its not rubbed in the others face. I think it is important for females to be more involved with their money, and that is why I could never fathom not working at all even if I was raising a child- but who knows, maybe that will change when I pop one out! Thanks so much for sharing your story about your mom and dad. My mom was always pretty good with her money so she came out relatively unscathed from my parents’ divorce, though she stopped working after about 10 years of full time work. She did keep separate accounts from my dad though.

Kudos to @FinancialUproar for being honest. A lot of guys say they want a woman who is successful, independent, etc. but I know from personal experience that the *reality* of that life is hard for a man to accept.

That doesn’t let us women off the hook. We still need to take control of our lives, our money and our success. We also have to find a guy who can add flavor to each of the above-like a spice 🙂

Matt says:

Confidence is sexy. Frugal women are sexy as well. Women who are comfortable about who they are, and can take care of themselves are sexy. On the other hand, I do like taking care of my wife. I like being the man of the house and making sure I take care of her, so like you said there might need to be a balance.

I love this post – so cheeky! And I love the fact that men are considering the Financial-Fox a blessing and not a freak. As a beneficiary of DINK it is a huge help to work as a team and as far as join accounts are concerned he definitely feels my J.Crew splurges and while it would be nice not to have to see him grimace it is helpful to have a little accountability and its never been a point of argument mostly jokes and loving jabs. Great post!


young says:

@Alysa- Did you just make that up? The Financial Fox? I like it! Except it’s already taken by Finance Fox (aka Eddie!) 😉

Helly says:

@Financial Uproar:

“why would I want to end up with someone who

young says:

@Helly- I think there CAN be a difference though. A corporate attorney (I am assuming here because I am not a corporate attorney) has very different hours of work from a teacher. I do think that if BOTh couples were interested in personal finance and budgeting, then that is ideal. It’s all about similar values 🙂

@Financial Uproar- If your girl was a spendthrift and had complete disregard for your money that you spent so much time making/saving/investing, would you still want someone who wasn’t good at budgeting and personal finance?

Jess says:

To be honest, it is annoying. Imagine you’re outdoor and all she talked about is her Portfolio, Real estate investment, and etc. Then from time to time, open her laptop/tablet and smartphone to check. She’s not present with you. That’s the annoying part.

young says:

@Jess- Speaking from personal experience? 😉 Yeah, I think it would be annoying if a male did that too! Isn’t that borderline bragging to be talking about stuff like that to your partner?

SophieW says:

I think it’s a matter of finding the right balance between independence and dependence… Most guys seem to be drawn to a woman who can look after herself and is confident, but they also crave a little bit of neediness to stroke their egos.

I personally can’t think of a bigger turnoff than someone who can’t manage their money and spends themselves into a deep, deep hole, male or female! – ok, maybe bad hygiene could be worse, but you know what I mean 😉

young says:

@SophieW- LOL haha bad hygiene is the pits! You’re right- I think anyone who has poor spending habits is a turn off. I would be quite wary of getting in a relationship with someone who has massive debt, actually, to be honest- however, how do you find out about this? It doesn’t come up in regular conversation when you’re first dating, LOL. I think you have it spot on and I agree with you- there is a balance between independence and dependence. I think both males and females want to feel needed and wanted, and they want to feel like they are contributing to the relationship and to each other.

Let me be the first to buck the trend, at least a little. Of course I would, right?

Like the other guys here, I want a lady who has her financial house in order. As Ayn Rand said (and I’m paraphrasing here) we should end up with people who are going under their own power in the same direction as we are. I don’t want to have to pay off my girl’s debts.

Saying that, I’m not particularly attracted to women in so called prestige jobs. Call it outdated, or wrong, or whatever, but I want to be the breadwinner. I want to be the guy who makes the most money. And no, it’s not so I can control my lady either. Money is my thing. I have a blog dedicated to the topic. It’s one of the things I bring to the relationship. I’m good at it. So why would I want to end up with someone who’s good at it too?

young says:

@Financial Uproar- I was actually waiting for your comment, and hoping that you would add your perspective because you are Mr. Contrarian himself! 😉 I know what you mean and I think you are probably speaking for a lot of guys out there who don’t feel like commenting (for those guys who completely disagree, I’m sorry in advance). I think that guys want to feel needed, they want to feel respected, they want to feel like they are providing- it’s biological and ingrained in men. I think that can still be done even though women are in prestige jobs though. They just have to not be so prestigious at the home front. I think men are turned off by women who act like men towards them (again, referencing David Deida, who writes about masculinity and femininity and polarization and depolarization).

Squirrelers says:

I think in days past, many guys would be intimidated. These days, everybody can hold their own, right? Can’t women succeed just the same as men? I think so.

My take is that someone who expects you to take care of them unilaterally, is not being reasonable in 2011. That’s a turnoff. Confidence and being capable of taking care of oneself is more attractive.

Sure, at the core, there’s a pull to help the “damsel in distress”. It’s a weakness many guys have, myself included:) Many of us instinctively want to protect the woman we love. That said though, thinking rationally, the idea that a woman is capable of taking care of herself and being a partner, instead of a dependent, is aligned with our modern society, and more attractive.

I guess what it comes down to is this – nothing wrong with both people needing each other and being there for each other unconditionally. Men shouldn’t be threatened by a woman who makes more money than he does while also being independent, while womens shouldn’t dismiss men that make less than they do or resent it at all.

young says:

@Squirrelers- Well said, Squirrelers! That’s a very balanced perspective and I feel like that sums up what I was thinking. I think that females expecting to find men to ‘take care of them’ so they won’t have to work is very dated, too. What about men expecting the females to take care of them at home? E.g. do the cooking, cleaning, chores (because we all know that women do more of this even though we are very egalitarian in the division of our housework now).

“Do they tune down the dominance when they get home and become meek pussy cats in order to please their man and not scare him off?”

No, we find men who aren’t lame and who enjoy being with a successful, independent, wealthy woman!

young says:

@Erica Douglass- Thanks for visiting, Erica! I mentioned to TM the same question, there’s always give and take in a relationship. What if the women is so driven that she spends all her time achieving her goals even after work? What if she starts to disrespect her partner because she is more successful? I guess there’s a fine line between success/independence and dominance?

krantcents says:

Women find confidence in men attractive and I think confident women are attractive too. No one characteristic or feature is everything. A great body can only take you so far, if you can not have a good conversation.

young says:

@krantcents- Very true krantcents. You always have a great way of simplifying the concepts 🙂

Sam says:

Most definitely! I read Why Men Love Bitches too on a plane ride home and it was spot on! Confidence and having one’s stuff together is attractive!

young says:

@Sam- You are so productive on your plane rides, Sam!! I admire your tenaciousness to avoid jetlag/sleeping on the plane 😉 It’s great to hear that men read women’s “self-help” books too!

It’s the only way to get to know what women are thinking, so you can write the counter posts!

young says:

@Financial Samurai- Looking forward to writing more counter posts! Will you write a counter post to this post? 😉

I find competence in all areas to be very attractive. A girl that is smokin hot, but spends 3 hours a day putting on make up, and can’t talk about recent events or find a decent job is a total non-starter for me (luckily I already found “the total package”) I wouldn’t mind if my gal didn’t work once we started a family, or took decreased hours, just as I would be willing to take a decrease in hours if we decided that’s what was best for our situation, the point is that she can get a great job and is qualified. I also appreciate that financially independent people appreciate budgeting and trying to maximize dollars even if they are in a situation where they are not the major breadwinner later on.

I think most competent guys I know want competent girlfriends/wives and the guys I know who don’t have much confidence for one reason or another are the ones that are intimidated. But as a final note, I usually don’t get along well with most women that are described as “b*tches.”

young says:

@T.M.- Hmm when you put it that way, I think a girl who spends 3 hours putting make up on is either insecure to go outside without her “face” on, or she is narcissistic to the point where its unhealthy 😉 Food for thought, TM, what about a girl who is so driven that she is determined to get her masters/PhD/MBA even though you want to develop your career too?

I don’t think I can make a blanket statement about whether I find financially independent women sexy or not. I’d have to take that one on a person by person basis. Now, generally, when I think of a financially independent woman, I think of a confident woman.

And confidence is THE sexiest attribute a woman can have, in my opinion.

young says:

@Travis- Thanks for your male perspective/ input- I agree that men find confidence very sexy and if a girl doesn’t respect herself, they won’t respect the girl either 🙂

I wouldn’t say it’s as much sexy to me as it is a respectable ability. I prefer other things like drive, independence, self-respect and similar intangible qualities. I get turned off by the women who take tings too far like the examples of nagging and bossing around. I think that a woman can be strong yet feminine at the same time, just like guys can be domestic yet manly. A lot of times, it just depends on their influences, ie: the environments they were raised. My boss is really Jewish, and as such went from his mom’s care to the wife’s with no time to grow as a person so of course he is helpless in a good many instances like cooking, laundry, organizational skills and the like.

Personally, I’m more interested in someone who can do for herself, stand on her own 2 feet, doesn’t need to be completed, yet also doesn’t feel the need to throw it in everyone’s face the way some men do which also makes me think that they’re deuches and not the quality people I want to associate myself with. But that’s just me….

young says:

@Eric J. Nisall- Eric! That was fantastic- you hit the nail on the head, I think. There are indeed some strong women who I find do take it too far (I admit I can be one of them, though I am sincerely working on that), and nag, boss around, control because they are used to controlling things at work. I used to think that women have to be strong all the time, but I am starting to learn that women can be strong yet feminine at the same time. I agree that guys can be domestic yet manly too, but I think it takes a huge amount of self awareness, willingness to change and better oneself to be able to achieve a good balance of these two aspects. So your boss, does his wife do all those things for him? (I’m just curious) or did she somehow manage to teach him how to do those things?

Helly says:

Absolutely! It is sad and scary that in this day and age, there are still countless women living in total financial dependence on their husbands. Anything can happen to a marriage– divorce, death, incapacitation of the wage earner. What happens then?

Financial dependence aside, I would think that a woman who can hold her own in any situation is one to be respected. I have a female friend who appears, outwardly, to be an outgoing and independent person. And when it comes to small, unimportant things, her husband certainly lets her have her way, creating the illusion that they have an equal partnership. But when it comes to the really core, important issues, it’s very clear that he’s the dominant one and she’s the submissive one. In fact, he even goes so far as to pretend that he’s letting her have her way, though in reality he’s the one calling the shots– under the guise of letting her “express herself”– more illusion. It rankles me to no end that she doesn’t see what he’s really doing and that she won’t stand up to him on important issues. I find that I view her in a completely different light because of that: one with a lot less respect. Imagine how much less respect her own husband has for her, then. And while trust and communication certainly rank high on what makes a relationship work, I find that respect is important, too. It ties in with the balance that you mentioned. It’s hard to respect a spineless submitter (<– is that a word?), and at the same time, going mindlessly along with your partner's decisions is not respecting him, it's fearing him.

Whew! That got into a tangent, didn't it! Sorry about that! I guess you can tell that I personally feel very strongly about women being independent, financially and otherwise 🙂

young says:

@Helly- Have you talked to your friend about it? It sounds like it bothers you a bit. I think that relationships are tough, especially when there are different personalities, or if each partner was raised in a different household (we all learn from our parents right, I suppose). What about women who MAKE it seem like the men are right, and they are making the decisions, but in fact it is the females decision and they are always right? There are lots of situations like that, right? And many people feel that there is manipulation on the female’s part when they are doing this, but is that not respecting the male? I think it boils down to how females and males communicate, and again, how “masculine” or “feminine” each person is. Because some guys are super masculine (you can see the testostrone pumping in the veins LOL) and some females are super feminine (e.g. “submissive”). But I agree, there has to be mutual respect in a relationship for it to work properly.

Melissa says:

Geez, I sure hope so! Otherwise, that may explain why I’m still single…

young says:

@Melissa- I think that some men are intimidated by powerful, strong, driven women. I am assuming that they may think that they might get bossed around at home too? (Which is every man’s fear!).

Sarah says:

I think they are DAMN sexy. I love women who are independent and can hold their own. I know that my hubby loves that I am a hard working, successful woman who brings home a lot of bacon 😉

As for the rest of the male species.. I am not sure. I think some men are intimidated. Hey – it wasn’t too long ago that the majority of women stayed at home and depended on their husbands. I think it takes a while for thoughts to change, and some thoughts just get passed down from family to family, generation to generation.. so perhaps there will always be this group of men who are traditional.

young says:

@Sarah- I know a lot of fiercely independent women who want a male partner and don’t have a male partner, too, unfortunately. I think females who are independent, successful and who’ve got it made are SEXY too, but I DO think that the masculinity that they have at work should try not to transcend into the home front. E.G. belittling your partner, nagging at him etc. I think there will always be a group of men who are traditional- I think that at heart, many men are traditional, but we were raised otherwise. I recently read some of David Deida’s books about masculinity and femininity, and I must admit, my initial reaction was “oh my god! my feminist inside me is raging!” then I understood his point and could see it in every day life/ interactions.